<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 7:20 AM iang <<a href="mailto:iang@iang.org">iang@iang.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p>Hey Phillip,</p>
<p>any update? do you have any other writings on this idea?<br>
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<div class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157moz-cite-prefix">On 16/02/2019 20:48, Phillip
Hallam-Baker wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="white-space:normal">One of the new UDF
types is the Encrypted Authenticated Resource
Locator. I am looking for backers to see if we
could use this to fix filing of expenses,
invoices, etc. This is an idea that I proposed
over 20 years ago and was told it was stupid
because there is no business model.</span></font></div>
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<p>The deployment is hard because accounting moves slower than
glaciers. Having looked at this idea for the same era, my
conclusion is that there is no way to do "just that." Instead, it
has to be piggy-backed onto some other application or business
process. In other words, it is not so much an invention as a
design pattern that should be slipped stealth-wise into the
business and allowed to spread outwards. I've recently been
consulting with someone who is doing just that, it turns out to be
very valuable when one has the right incentives.<br>
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<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="white-space:normal">Well I have yet to see
a better way put into practice. I have full prior
art disclosures on this going back a decade so
nobody even dream of perjuring yourselves to the
USPTO like so many other bastards have in the
past.</span></font></div>
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<p>The basic ideas should be hard to patent - it is similar or same
or related to what Todd Boyle was talking about in the late 1990s
on his web site now cached here:<br>
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<p><a href="http://linas.org/mirrors/www.gldialtone.com/2001.07.14/STR.htm" target="_blank">http://linas.org/mirrors/www.gldialtone.com/2001.07.14/STR.htm</a></p>
<p>His design was called the Shared Transaction Repository, altho
being an accountant and not a cryptoplumber, he didn't get deep
into the magic of hashes and exactly how to share the docs. He
coined the term "triple entry accounting" which I wrote about
later:</p>
<p><a href="https://iang.org/papers/triple_entry.html" target="_blank">https://iang.org/papers/triple_entry.html</a></p>
<p>Which also was something of an inspiration for Bitcoin in some
mythical sense. Having said all that, one can easily convince the
patent office of some of the detailed implementation issues, and
chances are that is already happening. Doesn't make it right, but
patents aren't right, they are rights.<br>
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<p>More recently, R3's Richard Brown has been marketing the notion
that "I know that what you see is what I see" as an aphorism
leading to the benefits of known equivalence as well as
integrity. It turns out that when done in certain fields such as
clearing & settlement, there are dramatic short cuts one can
take with the old systems if we know that there are no
reconciliation issues to bite us. Coincidentally, my description
of these processes fell out of a design for payments that was
intended for exactly that - trading in real time gross settlement,
without the clearance & settlement nightmare.<br>
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<pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="white-space:normal">So lets imagine we are on a business trip. We stay at a Hilton, we get a drink at Starbucks, etc. and when we get home we have a pile of receipts that we have to remember to turn in.</span></font></pre><pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="white-space:normal">
</span></font></pre><pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="white-space:normal">What if each of those receipts had a QR code that linked to an encrypted version of the receipt? What if we didn't need any PKI or even public key to decrypt it? What if this could be the first step on the road to finally getting rid of emailed invoices, tax forms, etc. etc.?</span></font></pre></pre></pre>
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<p>Yes it would work. That challenge is to not to build it, but to
encourage adoption. This is chicken & egg. Someone has to
take the lead and start posting these.</p>
<p>Then, as soon as you start posting these, the worryworts come out
of the woodwork. Privacy, security, compliance, taxman,
patriotism, ... everyone's got their criticism. So part of the
puzzle is to find a space where it can be protected for long
enough to keep back the no-dooers. Like mPesa was protected. Not
sure what that is tho.</p>
<p>Business wise, it could be loyalty points - the receipt QR could
lead to not only the digital receipt but also include the extra
points needed to get the "free coffee after 6" deal. Wrap the app
around it and start brewing.<br>
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<pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="white-space:normal">
</span></font></pre><pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="white-space:normal">[Yes, can also do it over near field communication and we could integrate the payment mechanism. Got the specs for that as well.]</span></font></pre><pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="white-space:normal">
</span></font></pre><pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="white-space:normal">So I am going to need some people/governments to invest in this to realize the full potential.</span></font></pre></pre></pre>
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<p>As above, I do not think just investing will work. What you need
is to convince someone who is already doing something quite close
to get a bit closer. We need to borrow someone else's chicken,
make some quick evolutionary hacks, and then try for our first new
egg.<br>
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<pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">[elided]</font><pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="white-space:normal">So to make this happen in real life, what I plan to do is:</span></font></pre><pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="white-space:normal">
</span></font></pre><pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="white-space:normal">1) Finish the revisions to the spec</span></font></pre><pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="white-space:normal">2) Release the reference code (C#) enabling the non QR code version</span></font></pre><pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="white-space:normal">3) Make a You Tube video describing the scheme</span></font></pre><pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"></pre><pre class="gmail-m_6371505699692747157gmail-newpage" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="white-space:normal">6) Profit?</span></font></pre></pre></pre>
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<p>Any update?<br>
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<p>iang</p></div></blockquote><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I am just about to present on the Mesh as a whole to IETF and tomorrow at SECDISPATCH and 13:30 local.</span></div><div><span class="gmail_default"></span></div><div><span class="gmail_default">I went with 4:4:4. The new draft is here:</span></div><div><span class="gmail_default"><br></span></div><div><span class="gmail_default"><a href="http://mathmesh.com/Documents/draft-hallambaker-mesh-udf.html">http://mathmesh.com/Documents/draft-hallambaker-mesh-udf.html</a><br></span></div></div></div>