jon at callas.org
Wed Mar 24 18:36:48 EDT 2010
On Mar 24, 2010, at 2:07 AM, Stephan Neuhaus wrote:
> On Mar 23, 2010, at 22:42, Jon Callas wrote:
>> If you need to rekey, tear down the SSL connection and make a new one. There should be a higher level construct in the application that abstracts the two connections into one session.
> ... which will have its own subtleties and hence probability of failure.
Exactly, but they're at the proper place in the system. That's what layering is all about.
I'm not suggesting that there's a perfect solution, or even a good one. There are times when a designer has a responsibility to make a decision and times when a designer has a responsibility *not* to make a decision.
In this particular case, rekeying introduced the most serious problem we've ever seen in a protocol like that. Rekeying itself has always been a bit dodgy. If you're rekeying because you are worried about the strength of the key (e.g. you're using DES), picking a better key is a better answer (use AES instead). The most compelling reason to rekey is not because of the key, but because of the data size. For ciphers that have a 64-bit block size, rekeying because you've sent 2^32 blocks is a much better reason to rekey. But -- an even better solution is to use a cipher with a bigger block size. Like AES. Or Camillia. Or Twofish. Or Threefish (which has a 512-bit block size in its main version). It's far more reasonable to rekey because you encrypted 32G of data than because you are worried about the key.
However, once you've graduated up to ciphers that have at least 128-bits of key and at least 128-bits of block size, the security considerations shift dramatically. I will ask explicitly the question I handwaved before: What makes you think that the chance there is a bug in your protocol is less than 2^-128? Or if you don't like that question -- I am the one who brought up birthday attacks -- What makes you think the chance of a bug is less than 2^-64? I believe that it's best to stop worrying about the core cryptographic components and worry about the protocol and its use within a stack of related things.
I've done encrypted file managers like what I alluded to, and it's so easy to get rekeying active files right, you don't have to worry. Just pull a new bulk key from the PRNG every time you write a file. Poof, you're done. For inactive files, rekeying them is isomorphic to writing a garbage collector. Garbage collectors are hard to get right. We designed, but never built an automatic rekeying system. The added security wasn't worth the trouble.
Getting back to your point, yes, you're right, but if rekeying is just opening a new network connection, or rewriting a file, it's easy to understand and get right. Rekeying makes sense when you (1) don't want to create a new context (because that automatically rekeys) and (2) don't like your crypto parameters (key, data length, etc). I hesitate to say that it never happens, but I think that coming up with a compelling use case where rekeying makes more sense than tearing down and recreating the context is a great exercise. Inconvenient use cases, sure. Compelling, that's hard.
The Cryptography Mailing List
Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at metzdowd.com
More information about the cryptography