Cruising the stacks and finding stuff

Leichter, Jerry leichter_jerrold at
Tue Apr 22 10:46:33 EDT 2008

| ...How bad is brute force here for AES? Say you have a chip that can do
| ten billion test keys a second -- far beyond what we can do now. Say
| you have a machine with 10,000 of them in it. That's 10^17 years worth
| of machine time, or about 7 million times the lifetime of the universe
| so far (about 13x10^9 years).
| Don't believe me? Just get out calc or bc and try
|   ((2^128/10^14)/(60*60*24*365))
| I don't think anyone will be brute force cracking AES with 128 bit
| keys any time soon, and I doubt they will ever be brute forcing AES
| with 256 bit keys unless very new and unanticipated technologies
| arise.
| Now, it is entirely possible that someone will come up with a much
| smarter attack against AES than brute force. I'm just speaking of how
| bad brute force is. The fact that brute force is so bad is why people
| go for better attacks, and even the A5/1 attackers do not use brute
| force.
Interestingly, if you add physics to the picture, you can convert "no
practical brute force attack" into "no possible brute force attack given
known physics".  Current physical theories all place a granularity on
space and time:  There is a smallest unit of space beyond which you
can't subdivide things, and a smallest unit of time.  One place this
shows up, as an example:  It turns out give a volume of space, the
configuration with the maximum entropy for that volume of is exactly a
black hole with that volume, and its entropy turns out to be the area
of the black hole, in units of square Planck lengths.  So, in effect,
the smallest you can squeeze a bit is a Planck length by Planck length
square.  (Yes, even in 3-d space, the constraint is on an area - you'd
think the entropy would depend on the volume, but in fact it doesn't,
bizarre as that sounds.)

So suppose you wanted to build the ultimate computer to brute-force
DES.  Suppose you want your answer within 200 years.  Since information
can't propagate faster than light, anything further than 100 years
from the point where you pose the question is irrelevant - it can't
causally affect the result.  So you computer is (at most, we'll
ignore the time it takes to get parts of that space into the
computation) a 100-light-year diameter sphere that exists for 200
years.  This is a bounded piece of space-time, and can hold a huge,
but finite, number of bits which can flip at most a huge, but finite,
number of times.  If a computation requires more bit flips than that,
it cannot, even in *physical* principle, be carried out.

I ran across a paper discussing this a couple of years back, in a
different context.  The authors were the ones who made the argument
that we need to be wary of "in principle" arguments:  What's
possible "in principle" depends on what assumptions you make.  Given
an appropriate oracle, the halting problem is "in principle" easy to

The paper discussed something else, but I made some rough estimates
(details long forgotten) of the "in principle" limits on brute force
attacks.  As I recall, for a 100-year computation, a 128-bit key
is just barely attackable; a 256-bit key is way out of the realm of
possibility.  Given all the hand-waving in my calculation, I didn't
try to determine where in that range the cut-over occurs.  Someone
better than me at the physics should be able to compute much tighter
bounds.  Even if I'm off by quite a bit, it's certain that the key
lengths we are using today are already near fundamental physical
limits.  Brute force is simply not an interesting mode of attack
against decently engineered modern systems.

Of course, this says - and can say - absolutely nothing about the
possibility of analytic or side-channel or any of a variety of other
intelligent attacks....
							-- Jerry

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