FW: U.S. Police and Intelligence Hit by ISRAELI SpyNetwork ???????????

Nathan Fain nathan at fains.com
Thu Dec 27 18:30:35 EST 2001

First, many thanks to you John and cryptome for archiving this

While the report doesn't appear to falsify any information it uses 
shady english to wet your imagination into assuming things which 
are indeed false.  So, I just want to cover and clear a few things 
from the article:

(btw, I'm a non-Jewish, non-Israeli, America)

1) the question in the original post:  "Why should we be freely giving
to Israeli corporations information (call records, CALEA information)
that requires court orders to obtain in this country?"
We aren't!  The article doesn't claim this (though perhaps it implies

   * The FBI, one of the worlds largest investigative agencies, has
     already investigated Amdocs and Comverse 'more than once'.  Did
     they find anything?  Or, was was the denial from each of these
     companies enough for them to close the case?  I don't think so.
   * Concerning Amdocs in particular, they made it clear only towards
     the end of that segment that the FBI DID NOT SUSPECT ISRAEL OR
     AMDOCS of foul play.  They made it clear that the system, if not
     setup properly, could be vulnerable to penetration.  And this is
     something that phreakers and hackers have been kicking agency ass
     over for years: configure the thing properly!  But instead, Fox
     is pointing the public eye towards Amdocs and Comverse.
   * Concerning Comverse, the backdoors and closed investigations:
     Let's say there is a backdoor.  It makes complete sense to me
     that this would be there because the US Gov. requested it or put
     it there themselves and the FBI investigation into the matter 
     was axed for this exact reason.
   * And for pure gaiety: 'vulnerabilities [in these phone systems]
     are growing, because according to another briefing, the U.S.
     relies too much on foreign companies like Amdocs for high-tech
     equipment and software.'  So wait, let me get this strait, my
     government (US) thinks that we'd be more secure against
     phreaking/hacking of these systems if it was developed in its
     entirety by US companies only?   lol.  That's classic.

NOTE: everything past this point has relevancy to the Fox story
but perhaps not the list.

2) Concerning Israel spying on the US in general:
Of course they are.  The problem with this Fox "News" report is that
it makes innuendoes or claims which are complete bull shit (sorry).
The only facts presented which have actual weight are:

   * The Israeli's that the US Gov. arrested (none of which appeared 
     to be in either of the two companies they discussed).
   * The Israeli's arrested that failed polygraph tests when 
     questioned about this subject.
   * And, perhaps the "General Accounting Office" (GAO) investigation
     of Country A / Israel

And to be honest.  This doesn't surprise me.  I expect it in fact.
One of the quotes put it best: 

  'A defense intelligence report said Israel has a voracious 
  appetite for information and said, "the Israelis are motivated 
  by strong survival instincts which dictate every possible facet
  of their political and economical policies. It aggressively 
  collects military and industrial technology and the U.S. is a 
  high priority target."'

This couldn't be more true.  They have these instincts because if they
didn't they would cease to exist.  The policy of Israel Defense Force
(see their website: idf.il) is that they must never loose a war due to
the small region they have and the fact that a loss of any sort would 
mean destruction (if one of their enemies had any success you can be
assured all of their enemies would jump in).  Second, the US is an
intelligence target for Israel for other reasons:
   * because, as stated, industrial and military technological
     information will give them an edge in defending themselves
     (the GAO report claims that they also benefit from this 
     financial, which is true, though I think the initial and main
     motive is still survival and to better defend themselves)
   * because Israel has had a touchy history with the US in various
     wars bringing in a shade to the trust in times of crises.  I 
     don't have much knowledge or the facts on Israeli History but
     I can tell you I've heard many a story (well known by all in 
     Israel) where certain intelligence information, sometimes vital
     to Israel's survival (such is said of the Jonathan Polard case),
     the US would not give to them.  Even if these claims are not true,
     they held enough weight and scared leaders enough to setup policy
     of never having to trust in anyone else for needed intelligence
     when the time comes, especially the US (because of this history).
     (If someone here is more familiar with Israeli History and would
     like to fill in the gaping blanks on this one, be my guest).

3) Israel having knowledge of 9/11 attack and not passing all the

  'What investigators are saying is that the warning from the Mossad
  was nonspecific and general, and they believe that it may have had
  something to do with the desire to protect what are called sources
  and methods in the intelligence community.'

Israel can't even be more detailed for many terror attacks here on
Israel soil.  Many time's there are high alerts.  Last week all of 
Haifa was on high alert.  They had suspicion of a planned attack but
no detail.  So I wouldn't be surprised if Israel knew of a major
attack planned on the US but didn't have any details.  And to go a bit
deeper, many times Israel gets this information from the grape vine
alone and not from infiltration into a terror cell or organization.
Even I hear from this grape vine at times.  At times Arab friends of
mine in Bethlehem will tell me to be careful riding busses or avoid
public places for the next few days because the grape vine is talking.
Sometimes they turn out to have been correct.  I believe, when Israel
has details on a terror attack from deeper intelligence levels they
will send a helicopter, sniper, or plant a bomb in the head rest of
the car belonging to those known to be planning it.

I tell you all of this not to convince you of Israel's innocence,
because it's not and the primary claim of spying is probably true.
However, I wanted you to see that there is another side or at least
more depth to this story.  Also I wanted you to see that for the most
part, most of the facts Fox News gave were just water to wet your
imagination and had no real application to the actual issue at hand.
The article uses shady english to do just that, get you imagining,
implying guilt somewhere that perhaps it shouldn't be or for which still
has yet to be weighed and determined.  The objective was simply to get
you thinking about 'their' story on the latest fad of stories hitting
the public stands as fast as the latest stock fad fades (internet,
wireless, optics, genome, etc.), or faster I suppose.

If you have read this far I encourage you to go back and read the Fox
story again because it is a classic example story telling -- of how
to give facts which are all true in themselves but have people going
away thinking something completely opposite just on the bases of how
those facts were presented and how the story was told.


John Young wrote:
> The Fox News reports were yanked by Fox without explanation.
> We've collected them from private archives and reposted:
>   http://cryptome.org/fox-il-spy.htm
> When the series first appeared it seemed to be another case
> of Israel bashing, in particular the parts that rehashed years-old
> allegations (we've linked to a 1996 GAO report cited by Fox,
> and other alleged participants' Web sites). And the series may
> well be calculated disinformation, if not by Fox then by its sources.
> However, Fox's unexplained yanking the series is worth noting.
> Except for a few comments on the Net, I do not know of mainline
> media follow-up on the reason for the yank.
> If Fox found that the reports are in error, that is the sort of
> thing that usually brings heat from competitors.
> If the yank was due to government intervention that would
> indeed be news, but hardly unprecedented these days.
> If the yank was due to private intervention that too would be
> worth learning about -- who, when, why.
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