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<div dir="ltr" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">grarpamp <<a href="mailto:grarpamp@gmail.com">grarpamp@gmail.com</a>>, 25 Haz 2018 Pzt, 04:31 tarihinde şunu yazdı:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Cryptocurrency, once established globally in trio of... philosophical mind,<br>enough mechanical knowledge to use confidently, and then used routinely<br>as desired... is wonderfully adaptive to attacks. Each of those three are<br>inevitable and unstoppable, and they continue to increase, leading to<br>eventual victory of cryptocurrency.<br>The "established" will make more by accepting and servicing it<br>than they will by burning resources trying to fight it.<br></blockquote><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"> </div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">I believe, hope and wish the same. However, I try hard to remain skeptical.</div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">We need coin-secularism in the space. We should separate our faith in our coins and the space from our technical/scientific works.</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">As i mentioned i dont mean super-rational attack will absolutely take place or try to forecast what will happen if it does. The process and space are too complex for a serious forecast attempt.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">However, I see super-rational attack as a boundary case worth discussing for the blockchain security model. And the probability of such an attack is significant enough. If we compute the necessity of SRA discussion as probability X severity then we conclude significant necessity. <span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;background:white;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Let me explain what i mean by sr attack with an example.Let us imagine a super-rational attack to, say, Dash. I chose Dash because BTC, BCH, ETH, EOS might attract high emotions today. Dash is good. Not too big, not too small, have the power of master-nodes, etc. Getting majority hash power means buying majority master nodes stake. BTC threat was obvious for the SR Attacker when Dash was born, and there was enough time window for it to focus on the disruption threat. Then the powerful smart attacker would not wait until today for its possible defensive-attack plan because it would be awfully more costly and difficult. Instead, it would get majority master nodes at its birth phase when the costs were peanuts. Stay dormant. It does not cost a thing plus you make money in terms of honest, good colour coin (your fuel) and build reputation, which you will need for a super-rational attack. If the coin explodes to become a threat, your investment-at-birth gives huge profit to fuel the attack. A beautiful paradox. Nakamoto says “then keep making money by playing by the rules”. Ok for the honest investor but remember the SR attacker has infinitely higher gain by destroying its disrupter. It is called survival. This phenomenon deserves a separate philosophical discussion involving evolution. A nice chicken-egg debate running forward rather than backward.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;background:white;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;background:white;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">SR attack is not an acute-only attack. It is indeed chronical (with acute episodes). The SRA would comprise the remarkable miners/masters of the target coin, it would attack, if it is wise enough to take the first step with good rather than stupid timing. BTC tragedies like block-size battle and BTC-BCH holy war might be a sr attack episode. Causing such increases at tx fees is trivial by sr attacker and the space has proven vulnerability to such an attack. SR attack can take years. Maybe we should not use the word attack. English is my second language, can someone offer a better phrase for super-rational attack, which sounds Turkish-English:)<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;background:white;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;background:white;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">That is why I call the SR attack as the boundary of blockchain security model, which is based on privacy, game theroy, trustlessness(!), decentralization, etc. It shows that if the powerful target to disrupt did steer its focus on the threat on time after the mortgage meltdown aftermath then the blockchain cryptocurrency space has a paradox sitting as a bomb at the heart of its security model which i try to explain at SR-attack phenomenon. The only hope is to anchor to something immune to sr attack or hope the SR attacker and the space will co-evolve to something that they become compatible or even one. A sort of singularity as in AI-human evolution.<span></span></span></p>
<div style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><div style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></div><br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></div><div style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">That being said let us do some thought exercise on below:</div>
<div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Legit users might statistical detect which miners are not mining<br>their lower fee tx and conspire to filter out their tx and node traffic<br>thus forking away from them.<br></blockquote><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Not mining lower fee txs is a normal/legit behavior. The sr attacker can adjust attack period/duration, timing, growth, tx fee amount, etc. parameters in such a way that detecting the system is under attack statistically might be far from trivial. U may imagine the sr attacker getting the majority hash power in terms of pools providing better incetives to its members, as well. In case honest miners can detect and collaborate, any fee they can get from the sybil nodes on the longest chain is removed from the attacker's loop. However, remember the sr attacker is much more powerful then the honest miners (and even the entire space) and hold its breath longer. Furhermore, the block size is limited, the longest chain rules, and the solution must be algorithmic + decentralized.</div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Such attackers will have massive non recyclable energy cost,<br>typically required to appear on their public sheets.<br></blockquote><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">The sr attacker uses legitimate mining energy as a reputable miner/pool manager/masternode, etc. Even if it were to cover up the energy spent the percentage of such costs should be negligible compared to total costs it has + the attacker is unfathomably huge and complex. There is plenty of space for cover-up. We should not be fooled with cases like Iran-gate that such staff always gets caught (tip of the iceberg phenomenon) or even if we the cypherpunks catch them the public will get mobilized against the etablishment to sufficient degree.</div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Legit p2p webs of in person validated global trust nets will also develop<br>creating new handshake agreements in mining / nodes defense, sybils<br>will not be able to pass inspection up to and including SSBI style,<br>large operations will be suspected and derated in metrics accordingly.<br></blockquote><div>I am a reputation systems believer and fan. The above is not as easy as it sounds. I have a lot to write about it but I have limited time. Privacy, legitimacy of high tx fee based choice, etc all make it algorithmically impossible to detect valid/honest tx from invalid/sybil tx in a sr attack scenario. </div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Attackers are ultimately frail and cannot continue to forever inflate<br>and sink their fiat into such attacks, citizens will revolt against that.<br></blockquote><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">FUD and speculation causing positive feedback mechanisms help collapse the target coin with sustainable attack volume. Less than required for the mortgage meltdown remedy. Globe has proven to be large enough to absorb the trilllion-dollar scale shock emission. The globe is even bigger today. There is enough room for de-emission (burning back) phases. Besides the sr attacker would obviously take the stake at the early phases of the target coin except BTC. BTC has the priviledge to be the first ever successful attempt.</div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Users will simply migrate and exchange away to more advanced<br>and resistant usable cryptocurrency nets if attackers tx fees and<br>etc begin making make the old unusable. ie: What has happened<br>with downfall of BTC...<br></blockquote><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">If you controll the longest chain u have the power to select the txs. when people panic due to legitimate reasons like high tx fees, they would run towards the exit. And when they do they would instinctively follow the exit sign, not the fire-danger/risk sign. Not all of the coin holders are cypherpunks like u and me:) we r the very minority in this thing and that's a good thing. The investors, speculators, the poor guy whos is here just to make money, lambo dreamer, moonwalker, none will hear our calls as they run. Besides all, remember the Dash scenario. How about this? The SR attacker missing the train almost at BTC and not in the remaining coins like Dash etc. could allow u to run from BTC to any of its coins where you run into a smaller cage. Can the entire space of investor whales and poor users collaborate to fight it? That is a huge question mark form me.</div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Cheers</div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"> </div>
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