<div dir="ltr"><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"> <span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">On 01/26/2018 06:09 PM,<span> </span></span><a href="mailto:bexnews@gmail.com" style="color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">bexnews@gmail.com</a><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span> </span>wrote:</span><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">> Much hype exists around DAG (directed acyclic graph) in some parts, as</span><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">> an improvement on blockchain crypto because, for one thing, it does away</span><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">> with mining. However isn't mining the thing that incentivizes increased</span><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">> computing power to verify the blockchain and protect against a 51%</span><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">> attack?  Would DAGs be less secure against attackers with lots of</span><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">> computing power *because* there is no mining?</span> <br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"> <span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">2018-01-27 19:45 GMT+03:00 Valentin Pasquale<span> </span></span><span dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><<a href="mailto:valentin.pasquale@orange.fr" target="_blank" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">valentin.pasquale@orange.fr</a>></span><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">:</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><span class="gmail-"><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">"</span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(84,84,84);font-family:Roboto,arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">However isn't mining the thing that incentivizes increased computing power to verify the blockchain and protect against a 51% attack?"</span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(84,84,84);font-family:Roboto,arial,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></span></div></span><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(84,84,84);font-family:Roboto,arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">Actually, you can "mine" with stack of coin (that's PoS of dPoS). Ethereum is trying to implement this kind of mining</span></div><span class="gmail-"><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(84,84,84);font-family:Roboto,arial,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(84,84,84);font-family:Roboto,arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">"Would DAGs be less secure against attackers with lots of computing power *because* there is no mining?"</span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(84,84,84);font-family:Roboto,arial,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></span></div></span><div><font color="#545454" face="Roboto, arial, sans-serif" size="2">Same, if a system is based on something (let say mining) then yes dag is easier to attack. With hashgraph you need to be 34%. But some people claim every distributed system is vulnerable to a 34% attack, consisting in setting up a firewall separating honest miners in two groups, and then attack of the group. Such a firewall can be pretty hard to set, so blockchain is more secure.</font></div><div><font color="#545454" face="Roboto, arial, sans-serif" size="2">But dag is designed to be "fast" and therefore isn't based on mining but rather on stack or reputation (for permissioned systems, a group of founders can have 20% of the reputation they share when they invite people in). Moreover I think proof of stake or proof of work achieve the same level of security regardless of how one can attack it (PoS can be insecure if they are massive hacks, and PoW can be insecure if one guy achieve to improve the "mining algorithm" and sell it. Personally I prefer proof of work)</font></div><div><font color="#545454" face="Roboto, arial, sans-serif" size="2"><br></font></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">TLWR : "No". Yes.</span></div></div></blockquote> <br></span></div>

<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></div>Pow, pos, dpos, etc. all have the same problem when it comes to security. When you are in the ocean, you cannot anchor to something made of or convertible to water. If you anchor to an iceberg, the attackers just melt it. In a financial system, you cannot anchor to anything made of or convertible to money. Pos, pow, etc suffer because stake is made of money, electricity is convertible to money. So all the cryptocurrencies are vulnerable to a super-rational attack involving enough stake/power. I call this the AR Theorem (Anchorlessness-Robustness) in my paper. I show that you cannot achieve both Anchorlessness and Robustness at the same time. I define Robustness with components like efficiency, super-rational attack resilience, etc. Funnily, we have an anchorage that we amazingly ignore. An anchorage you cannot buy, bribe, corrupt. An anchorage that everybody on this list trust. An anchorage that can be used to randomly create and use secret keys that secures the system. It is right there next to us. We just don't see it because we don't raise our heads. And we keep paying an amazingly huge technical debt to get vulnerable and poor systems:) This is a manifestation of the importance of skepticism, the fuel of science.<span> </span></span><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline">Zero tolerance to fanaticism.</span><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span> </span>We, the scientists, should never give up being skeptical about the things that we believe the most. That is the essence of paradigm shifts, which brought humanity here, whose frequency needs to increase.</span><br><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div></div></div>