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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 07/09/2017 à 00:29, Tom Mitchell a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAMy4UQoU8kBdoVFTQP7sA34Mt930c7V1fEO5QFyxgMtXFaBkg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 5:33 AM,
Camille Harang via cryptography <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cryptography@metzdowd.com" target="_blank">cryptography@metzdowd.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span
class="">Le 06/09/2017 à 01:29, Jerry Leichter a écrit :<br>
> Hmm. A couple of years back, when Intel proposed to
add a unique ID to<br>
</span></blockquote>
<div>..... </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hello
Jerry, thanks for your reply. Yes indeed there are serious<br>
tracking issues with this kind of technologies. My
motivation is to make<br>
transportable goods usable as cash, </blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cash has serial numbers but they cannot be read from a
distance.<br>
OCR tech would allow a dispenser to log all the serial
numbers dispensed</div>
<div>on any transition. Cashregister tech could also read
serial numbers. <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Hello Tom, thank you for your reply and all this pertinent extra
information. Yes low or high tech tracking is a big issue! But I
think that the first threat towards privacy is central banking,
tracking is an extension of this initial power they have with their
monopoly over money creation. So I think that privacy issues
regarding these technologies should be addressed and mastered,
instead of preventing us to act. The question here is
decentralization, these techs will be deployed anyway, the question
is will they be deployed by the people for the people, or by central
powers. If it is by central powers we will have no control on
privacy, nor monetary independence. If it is by we the people, we
will have monetary independence, and imperfect but IMHO manageable
control over privacy abuse.<br>
<br>
On the Checkoin specs (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://checkoin.org/">https://checkoin.org/</a>) there is an extra
layer of reputation system, it is optional, but it can help in many
privacy case. Because it's Open Source and decentralized the users
have the freedom to chose their tech (or make their own), so they
will likely choose to use the apps, coins, cashiers, stores, etc.
that will display the best privacy score on their screens (because
they are being audited for that by third party services), this
freedom of choice would never happen if such technologies are forced
upon us in a coercive manner by central powers, they would force the
most intrusive technologies upon people, as always. IMHO we have no
choice but to take the bull by the horns.<br>
<br>
I agree with you about central powers will to get rid of cash,
that's also why I believe that if cash is a problem for them, it's a
solution for us (if we control it). The $10000 limit you mention is
a clear signal about this war on cash, they will lower it until its
use become worthless, until it vanishes. Here in Europe it's even
worth, the limit has been lowered so many times that it's under €300
in Italy now IIRC.<br>
<br>
Yes indeed access cost to be able to use such technologies will
always be higher than with cash. But I don't see how we can make
something dencentralized and secure without tech :-/<br>
<br>
This RFID device you mention is very interesting, does it exist or
did you invent it? Yes indeed in case of NFC/RFID with cryptographic
checks, there must be power supplied, that's why I suggested a
battery that could be charged with standard micro-USB plugs, if it
can last few month I think it can remain convenient, otherwise
people wont use it. Or power+communication be done via USB, then we
get rid of power problems and distant spying, if the act of plugging
the device is not too difficult (not harder that scanning a banknote
under a blacklight as cashiers already do), I think it can be
useful. Here is a fictional printed circuit microchip that was
originally designed for Checkoin:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://checkoin.org/home/#printed-circuit-with-a-a-hrefcoin__public_keykey-signing-microchipa">https://checkoin.org/home/#printed-circuit-with-a-a-hrefcoin__public_keykey-signing-microchipa</a><br>
<br>
Yes indeed I also believe that there must be special cases where
this notion has value. Thanks for your feedback, thanks to get
involved or spread the word if you believe this can be useful, I'd
really like to see this tech in the hand of the people.<br>
<br>
Bests,<br>
<br>
Camille.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAMy4UQoU8kBdoVFTQP7sA34Mt930c7V1fEO5QFyxgMtXFaBkg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
The important thing to look at is the cost of the first
transaction.<br>
A reader and computer with connectivity have a cost.<br>
<br>
Cash transactions have no cost beyond the risk of theft
(taxation can apply).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Barter transaction have no cost beyond the risk of
theft (taxation can apply). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Currently cash transactions are under pressure to
vanish. The merchant does not</div>
<div>risk theft at the point of sale (hacking at Target).
Transactions involving 10,000 in</div>
<div>the US are to be reported.<br>
<br>
It seems the entry at the low end is a barrier and law
enforcement would want to </div>
<div>play in the $10,000 and above range. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I can see an RFID device that has a fuse link key that
cannot be inspected</div>
<div>and could be challenged with a random sequence to
return a good hash</div>
<div>of that challenge. If the owner of the key in
involved and keeps track of challenge keys</div>
<div>it will never submit the same key twice to eliminate
replay spoofing as an authoritive</div>
<div>attack. Power in an RFID device limits so much that
this may collapse to something too</div>
<div>simple to be secure.<br>
<br>
Hard wire the device in a board so it can be read when
power is on and </div>
<div>the Intel push back would replay. </div>
</div>
<div><br>
There may be special cases where this notion has value and
tomorrow is </div>
<div>a new day.</div>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr"> T o m M i t c h e l l</div>
</div>
</div>
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